By John Earl
OC Voice Editor
Based on information taken from a variety of sources, including the H.B. City Council Candidates Forum held on Sept. 18, as well as from Voice news stories, interviews and from campaign literature provided by the candidates.
Desalination plant
Q. How would you solve the potential water shortage crisis in Huntington Beach and should ocean water be privatized for corporate profit? Is the Poseidon desalination plant (planned for southeast Huntington Beach) a good idea?
Kalmick: Conservation. Encourage but not mandate people to get rid of their lawns. Desalination for Huntington Beach is the wrong solution. The location is wrong and no one has offered to buy the water yet. Poseidon Inc. hasn’t successfully built a plant yet. Its Tampa Bay desalination plant went through two bankruptcies before the municipal water district had to take it over. And the H.B. plant would be twice the size. We don’t need it. Privatized water sets a bad precedent for water wars that are allegedly coming in the next 20 years. A 2007 Coastal Commission report raises questions about the project that Poseidon hasn’t answered. Electricity costs for running the plant are double what Poseidon said. Doesn’t make sense financially to build it.
Fact check: The Poseidon plant will be built with private funds, although the company seeks government subsidies in order to keep a lower price for the water it will sell.
Baylis: Educate the public about conserving water. People frequently water down their driveways in order to clean them off when a broom would do. Southern California is a desert and always will be a desert. Not certain that Poseidon is the right answer. Won’t support a project that doesn’t have the broad support of the public.
Hansen: We have to deal with water shortages. Groundwater replenishment and conservation haven’t been enough. We have to look for new resources, including desalination. Huntington Beach has shown some leadership in that area by being on the forefront of [that] source. Mr. Kalmick’s comments are flat out wrong. The Coastal Commission just approved a sister project in Carlsbad that’s almost exactly the same as the project that’s coming to Huntington Beach… We’re going to need the water. It’s not us building the plant, it’s all private investment. It makes sense to have a multipronged approach to your water policy. And unfortunately, this is the problem with a lot of our projects, misinformation.
Fact check: Although water shortage predictions for the state are dire and could affect the entire state directly or indirectly, Huntington Beach, which gets most of its water from ground wells, does not currently have a water shortage. And although conservation efforts have kept consumption at lower than 1990 levels, much more could be done. The Poseidon Carlsbad plant is not exactly the same, but similar. Water will be taken in from a lagoon, not directly from the ocean. Also, government subsidies will be used to keep water prices lower.
Kalmick’s remarks are essentially factual. As reported in the Voice (see “Poseidon’s Delay,” May, 2008), the Coastal Commission reported said that Poseidon had greatly under estimated the costs of running the plant. Water rates for desalinated water would be $1,500 – $2,000 at least, per acre-foot, according to most accepted estimates, not the $800 – $900-with government subsidies-claimed by Poseidon, which is still far higher than present water rates, about $450 per acre-foot. Even if the water doesn’t go to the city (no buyer has been announced), an infusion of more expensive water into the system will force rates higher for all. A much more cost-efficient and environmentally friendly type of desalination, which sucks water in from under the sea floor, is available, the report said. Also, a recent court ruling and legislative trends point to an end of the “once-through-cooling” technology associated with the outdated AES power plant that Poseidon would use to suck in ocean water and kills all marine organisms that pass through it. The report concluded that Poseidon’s proposed mitigation measures for environmental impact were inadequate.
Finally, although the Poseidon plant would be built with private funds, Poseidon’s track record in Tampa, as Kalmick points out, was one of failure, largely due to cost cutting measures that resulted in poor design and construction. There were two bankruptcies by firms that Poseidon subcontracted out to before the Tampa Bay Water Authority had to take control at huge cost to taxpayers. Presumably, the city of Huntington Beach would have no obligation to take over for Poseidon. Then Southeast H.B. residents would be saddled with the plant until another buyer or tax payer paid bailout comes along.
Brandt: Conservation is number one thing that we ought to be doing because it’s easy and saves everybody money. Water reclamation should be explored too. On private vs. public ownership of water: “It’s kind of like who owns the oil in the ground. Everything belongs to the public, the ocean and the oil. So it has to be captured through license fees and if the city facilitates that they have to charge a fee for it, like oil companies pay a fee.”
Dwyer: We do need to use different approaches and actually the city is looking into different approaches. On water privatization: “Does anybody think that the government runs anything better than we do? I mean, look at what’s going on today. It’s just amazing. We have a need for water. We have to solve that need. I was just driving up in Northern California across Lake Shasta. It’s down like 60 feet from its normal level. We have a problem and we need to solve it. If Poseidon is the answer then we need to get behind it.”
Fact check: Cities abroad and within the United States that have chosen to privatize their water systems often have later rejected it after encountering higher prices, inferior service and maintenance and less oversight and accountability.
Bohr: Conservation is the cheapest and easiest way. “Huntington Beach has a pretty good track record, plenty of room for improvement, but we use less water today than we did in 1990. Two-thirds of our water comes from groundwater, so we are lucky in that regard. But desal, conservation, taking the runoff and keeping it from going into the ocean, we have to do a multi-prong approach. There’s not just one answer. I disagree with everything Mr. Kalmick just said..It will produce 50 million gallons of drinking water per day at no risk to the city. In fact, the reports are that it will generate $67 million over the next 30 years and that it’s responsible and one of the prongs that we need to look at.
Fact check: See Hansen
CANDIDATE’S QUESTION #1 CANDIDATE’S QUESTION #2
World losing freshwater resource battle
When the world population grows and water tables decline, imminent water shortages threaten us. Many are concerned with this crisis, but few new and relevant technology solutions prevail nor is depending on conservation a serious or dependable option. There is a water shortage and the only immediate solution is worldwide seawater desalination.
Water Desalination International, Inc. a Nevada corporation is soon to unveil a second generation desalination process the Passarell V.E.S. to decrease this global water problem. What is this technology? The thermal process separates potable water from the elements in seawater by using the gravitational influence in an ambient vapor field.
As crucial environmental enforcement is essential to preserve the environment, Water Desalination International’s technology succeeds all environmental standards. Primarily, WDI’s technology of extraction of drinking water leaves a wet crystallized salt that eliminates waste brine from being returned to the sea and thus preserving the ocean environment. Secondarily, is the use of a multiple pod system technique of subsurface (below the seafloor) for seawater retrieval.
Subsequently, this technology that meets environmental practices also reduces water costs. The Passarell V.E.S. seawater desalination process will reduce the cost of drinking water and provide an additional benefit obtained from crystallized salt through its sale in commercial markets.
WDI has broken through the high price of drinking water from the sea and lowered the cost of desalination by two third the costs of conventional process such as Reverse Osmosis.
10/11/08 REGARDING DESALINATION PROCESSES AND SUCCESSES, DOES ANYONE SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN POSEIDON RESOURCES (NOTE TAMPA BAY FAILURE) AND PASSARELL V.E.S. SEA WATER PROCESS WHICH WILL OPEN A PLANT SOON. I AM FOR DESALINATION BUT WITH A COMPANY THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING!! I AM NOT A SCIENTIST BUT I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COMPANY THAT GETS THE JOB DONE AND ONE THAT DOES NOT.
I have a basic knowledge of producing purified water , and to me it seems that the Navada Based company has the best approach . ( Water Desalination International, Inc. ) .
I know nothing more about this corporation or its process than I have read here ( above ) . But I know or assume that this process is much like the process which nature has used for millions of years to make rain water .
This process brought into a confinement containers could even do a faster and more reliable job than the billions of years old natural rain making process , because we get to keep all of it , and prevent outside elements from contaminating the product .
The sun I assume would still be the power source , so as stated , it could be very low cost production .
Why rush into any outdated and very energy intensive process like reverse osmosis , which will later just be abandoned because it is not cost efficient . ( obsolete )
This would be our worst possible choice .
Larry James
I believe there is one more item worth mentioning .
that is that what ever we do . like schools , highways , housing development land being paved over , Hospitals , what ever we do with taxpayer funds , it will never be enough .
We will be forced to keep doing and paying for another , and another and paving over more farm lands , until we have turned the entire country into a free for all foreign invasion anarchy full of prisons slums and crime .
Our most important project never gets addressed . that is relentless invasion , legal and illegal , we build it and invaders take it and we build it again till we are dieing in street riots over some shortage of food , money , water , medical care or what ever it leads to .
First we need to take back our country from foreign nation control of our governments in our own government .
If not what ever we build or do is not going to be there for Americans , it will be occupied by foreign invasion multitudes , tens of millions of them coming here to set up their own races and their own cultures , and to run this country as a welfare reserve for their own ethnic groups waiting to come and have a better life .
Americans have a right to some freedom and some time off , some land to grow food or to enjoy for it’s natural beauty .
We were not born to become the supporters of races which have no desire to control their population growth , and no reason to have this desire either .
Larry James
Is it illegal to talk about this , In America ?
I have to mention this one before I can sleep well . or think about something else .
Water supply is something our city governments have done very well .
If we sell our facilities for water supply and , or , production facilities to private entities , they will likely end up being owned by some foreign country or foreign corporation , bank , or stock investors .
I think this would be a disastrous mistake from an economic standpoint , and a very disastrous mistake from a national security or military disadvantage possibility .
It could be that American or city taxpayers will be forced to buy these facilities back from some future owner at some ridiculous loss .
It could be that we will be overcharged for water by double , tripple , or many times the actual cost of production .
It could be that the U.S. federal government ( us ) will be forced to bail out the water producer / supplier and the tax payers will be the forced taxpayer slaves to some foreign country for decades .
We should just keep what we have and never sell it at all , or keep it and lease it to private operators under tight conditions envolveing price controls and termination rights .
If this is not possible , then it is time to claim that water and medical care is for legal citizens and legal residents of America only .
This should include medical care for foreign citizens who give birth in America .
If Americans can no longer afford to supply water or medical care to our own citizens , then why can we afford to supply it for illegal invasion foreigners ?
This needs to be stopped .
It should never have started , but it is not too late to end all of it .
Larry James
[...] Senior Center in the Park—consult these helpful, thorough articles from the Orange Coast Voice: http://ocvoice.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/huntington-beach-city-council-election-issue-water-privatiza... http://ocvoice.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/huntington-beach-city-council-election-issue-senior-center/ [...]
This article isn’t about selling our facilities that currently exist for water supply to HB and Costa Mesa. And this article has nothing to do with foreign nationals taking over what we are building (are you sane). No offense, but when we deregulated energy, foreign nationals didn’t come in and take over SCE or any of the other plants including AES in HB.
This isn’t about deregulating the water markets though, this is about replenishing what we have lost and providing another soursce so that we don’t wind up where we are. If you take a look at Lake Mead, you know that there is a problem that needs to be resolved. Conservation, although a great ideology, isn’t cutting it. I don’t know if Posiedon is the best bidder on this job, but consumers aren’t building the plant. The construction is privatized. It would create some good short term jobs though. The energy would come directly from the power plants that already exist, so don’t worry, all the people in HB can leave their AC on.
Everybody is always sceptakle of something new or different and that’s ok. Just make sure that the research done is by yourself and not someone else. For example:
Factcheck: Nobody is considering, with or without this desal plant, privatizing the municipal water system. So why is that a concern?
Factcheck: If HB doesn’t need the water, they will not be forced to use the water or purchase the water.
Factcheck: Reverse Osmosis is nowhere near obsolete. New R&D in the field is ongoing. I don’t even know where that tidbit mentioned earlier came from.
Factcheck: More can be done with conservation of water, but guess what, we’re still waiting for the conservation that is needed to be taken care of on the grid. On the weekends during the summer, the grid still has to stretch to meet demand cause of residential AC. So you go ahead and wait for that conservation to somehow replenish what we have already lost. I think the idea of conservation is great, but everybody has to do it all the time, no exceptions. The Colorado, which is the major supply to the basin area, is still threatened if conservation improves, what is your answer to that.
Factcheck: I have never heard such an ignorant non-relavent point made by anybody since I lived in the South years ago, until I read the first Larry James comment. Way to represent American ideals. I am not for illegal immigration, but legal’s don’t need to be looked at as an invasion. Last time I checked, I was a legal and you were a legal. That was just a flat out dumb thing to say. Whatever that guys supports, how can anyone support the same?